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November 03, 2008


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Requesting Picture ID is just another incarnation of white racism and the legacy of our country's obstacles in preventing people from voting..

It is the same tatic as not allowing people with criminal records, weqaring of badges and t-shirts to the polls...

All of these tatics are a reflection of those who have contempt for free elections and the power of the people and a democratic society...

Jack I always like to listen to your commentaries they are all based on common sense I miss not seeing you at Flashpoint

Thrasher, I think the operative phrase is "free and fair" elections. I don't see how proper identification can be considered an obstacle. The ID is available free.

Criminals forfeit their right to vote by becoming criminals. The polling place is supposed to be free of intimidation and pressure, hence the banning of advocacy tee shirts and so on. It makes perfect sense.

Racism cuts both ways. Seems a bit out of place to talk about white racism in a year when an African American may win the presidency. Unlesss, of course, he wins it because white people are afraid of being called racist if they don't vote for him (which is happening ...).

Its my hope the country unites behind whomever wins so that we can effectively address some of our proplems.


Picture ID is just another tatic to block folks from voting it is that simple..Criminals who have paid for thier crimes should be free and fair to vote..

Racism in this society has never cut both ways..White folks have never been subject to jim crow era laws, slavery, disparate treatment etc..

I care less about white guilt and thier issues..I am very happy I contributed to the end of white presidential supremacy!!!!


If you have contributed to the end of anything, I would suggest it is white presidential exclusivity, not supremacy, and if that is the case, I am probably as happy as you to see it happen, though not with this particular black guy (... and, we don't know if it has happened yet).

Certainly, we have in this country aspects of a shameful racial past, to which I say, good riddance and may it always stay in the past. However, on the whole, the United States is the most accomodating, egalitarian society on the planet, and the most successful in bringing together in peace (for the most part) people of diverse backgrounds - ethnic, racial, religious, and political. So, let's work to build that, not trash it.

And racism and other types of discrimination do cut both ways, believe me. I'm not talking about some hypothetical situation, I'm talking about my own personal experience with violence and intimidation, perpetrated against me solely because of my race (which happens to be white), and quite profane and degrading speech now being directed at me because of my religious beliefs (which happen to be Roman Catholic). So, don't always be in the victim mode, buddy, or people will only discount your views.



Take your own advice you are playing the victim role as a pitiful white male catholic and as such I may discount your comments in here..

Sorry to disappoint but daring to discuss our country's inhumane racial legacy is not playing the victim role a term BTW created by defensive whites seeking to deflect the truth about white racism..

Fact is as an American I will continue to expect my country to live up to its ideals and Yes I will not forget, or ignore our nation's depraved racial legacy just to be pc ...I will never retreat, surrender, or forget our country's racial legacy..I will never forget the 2 domestic holocausts on our American soil..

I have always been a victor and I will always make a difference..I hope you will get out of your AWM state and join me in making our country great again..

Obama is our president now..I made that possible...YES WE CAN

My recollection is that the Michigan Democrats opposed the identification requirement because it's a de facto poll tax as the state IDs are not free.

Though one can sign an affidavit verifying their identity, many people (rightly) feel intimidated by signing such legal documents (and as the GOP has demonstrated time and time again, there are all sorts of ways of using those sorts of legal documents to intimidate poor and undereducated voters from voting - which is just the way they like it).

While identification is more ubiquitous than ever, I don't think it's as mandatory as Jack noted. I'm not sure where he bought his groceries, but I routinely buy groceries without ID - even when using a credit card (and if the amount is low enough, one isn't even required to sign when using the credit card at many locations).

I can't find any information online that validates Roy's claim that state IDs are free; from what I've read they cost at least $10 (more for a driver's license).


Not only that, but Michigan's Secretary of State Terri Lynn Land has proposed a more expensive "dual purpospe" ID that would serve as both a driver's license and a passport (thereby putting even more of a financial burden on the socioeconomically-disadvantaged):


Jack is right that the Dems are just trying to make it easier for a population that favors them to vote, and that the Republicans are trying to make it more difficult for the opposite reason.

Given how rare voter fraud is in our state, however, (in spite of the hyperbolic, trumped-up claims of the GOP) I think we're right to err on the side of access for more voters.

Um, how about because, unlike buying a sofa, voting is a fundamental right and any barrier to the exercise of the franchise has to be well-enough justified to pass strict scrutiny review?

There is wholesale fraud in elections that's very hard to stop, and very rewarding to the perps (Diebold, Choicepoint, the Terry Lynn Land vote purges, etc.) What there is very, very little of, if any, is retail fraud, because (a) it's a felony; and (b) it's very easy to detect.

So what we've got is a law that addresses a non-problem by creating an obstacle to the exercise of a fundamental right while simultaneously ignoring the much more pervasive problem of black-box voting machines that are totally unauditable.

If you want to take up this issue, propose something sensible: universal, automatic voter registration for all Michigan citizens with all-mail balloting. Require that the SOS send a ballot every election to every citizen 18 or older, and require that all citizens return the ballot (whether it's voted or not) so that the election rolls can be maintained. There, done. No more vote purges, no more nonsense about "vote fraud," higher turnout, lower costs.

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